Photographer: Nathan Howard/Bloomberg

NEW YORK — Jamie Dimon forcefully opposed what he described as a regulatory “attack” during a fireside chat Monday at the American Bankers Association’s annual convention.

Dimon spent more than two-thirds of his 30-minute talk discussing how the banking industry is regulated — not only under the Biden administration, but also since the Obama era. Specific topics included the final Basel III capital rules, interchange fee rules established by the so-called Durbin Amendment, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s new open banking rule, reforms of FDIC insurance and the role of banks in advocacy.

“The Dodd-Frank Act did a lot of things that were necessary,” Dimon said, arguing that the 2010 law also did a lot of things that weren’t necessary. “I drew up a spaghetti chart once and looked at all the new agencies and all their overlock rules. And we can’t fix mortgages. We can’t fix Durbin. We can’t fix millions things, (and everything) needed to be fixed. It’s an attack, and it’s unfortunate.”

“The banks are under so much pressure, and a lot of them – in truth – don’t want to fight with the regulators because they will come after you,” Dimon said. “This is disgusting. It’s time to fight back.”

“We don’t want to get involved in litigation just to make a point, but I think if you’re in a knife fight, you better bring a knife, and that’s where we are.”

Regarding the Basel III proposal, which is being revised following strong resistance from industry, Dimon said: “The devils are in the details, and there are a lot of details.” He also said that much of the effort to tighten capital standards “is not justifiable.”

As banks wait for the final Basel III regulations to be finalized, a key question that arises is whether regulators will revise their initial proposal or issue a new proposal.

CFPB Director Rohit Chopra, who serves on the board of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., said last week that he favors revisions rather than a new proposal in order to move forward “as quickly as possibleFederal Reserve Vice Chairman for Supervision Michael Barr said last month that he favored a new proposal for the rule. The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency also said it supported to a new proposal.

Dimon said Monday that he, too, preferred a new notice of proposed rulemaking. “I was told the FDIC would not vote for this. The OCC and the Fed can (issue the notice of proposed rulemaking without the FDIC also signing on). I would prefer that so at least we can see it and start commenting on it.

Dimon said Silicon Valley Bank’s bankruptcy last year demonstrated the flaws in several key provisions of the Dodd-Frank Act, including resolution planning and stress testing. None of these measures prevented the demise of the SVB or the crisis that followed, he said.

In response to last spring’s banking crisis, the best thing regulators can do is focus on reforming liquidity requirements, Dimon said. He also argued that changing the deposit insurance regime could be beneficial, but warned the process could be politically complicated.

“If we open up FDIC insurance, which we can, the problem is…lawmakers are putting more and more stuff into it. It just becomes a crappy Christmas tree,” Dimon said. “So I’m not against it. I’m just worried about this particular thing.”

Debit exchange the fees, which were lowered more than a decade ago via the Durbin Amendment in the Dodd-Frank decision, were also considered Monday. Dimon opposed efforts to lower existing debit price caps.

“Initially, everything was flawed,” Dimon said. “And even though it was put in Dodd Frank, we don’t think the Fed did the numbers right. Now we’re going to war with retailers – the big box guys – because they push this year after year. “

JPMorgan estimates that the first implementation of the Durbin Amendment resulted in five to 10 million people losing their accounts, Dimon said. He says the second go-around will push more Americans out of the banking system.

Dimon also argued that the debate between banks and retailers over interchange fees is tainted by what he calls “the big lie.” He was referring to the costs that retailers absorb when dealing with cash.

Dimon said handling cash costs small retailers between 5 and 7 percent, and can cost big box stores 1 or 2 percent, due to costs such as insurance, diversion, logistics and cash prevention. fraud and counterfeiting, which retailers must bear to actually move. in cash at a bank.

“If (merchants) don’t like debit or credit, let them accept cash,” Dimon said. “But to tell us it costs nothing, and they want it for free…When have you ever seen the government (dictate) prices between two major industries?”

Dimon has also been critical of the CFPB open banking rulewhich was finalized last week.

“Rohit (Chopra) is a very intelligent guy who has one major flaw – which I told him personally – which is that you use your brain to justify what you already think,” he said.

“No one is against open banking,” Dimon said. But he argued that the CFPB rule creates risk for both bank customers and payment systems.

“Instead, there should be a clear transfer of responsibility in sharing data,” Dimon said. “If someone takes all this data and somehow the money is stolen because of what (the third party) did, they are responsible, not (the bank). We Let’s fight and we’ll win one too.”

Dimon’s appearance took place two weeks later JPMorgan reported third quarter result which exceeded analysts’ expectations, thanks to strong revenue growth driven by improved results at investment banks and a rise in net interest income. The bank, however, warned of a potential deterioration in credit quality.

Other uncertainties remain for the banking sector, which faces a imminent squeeze net interest income in 2025 as the Fed continues to cut interest rates.

Dimon said that while the U.S. economy is “kind of booming” with high housing and stock prices, a strong job market and increased wage growth, he remains concerned about the potential for stubborn inflation .

“I’m concerned that inflation, in my opinion, won’t go away that quickly,” Dimon said. Huge budgetary expenditures, the remilitarization of the world, the green economy and the restructuring of trade are all inflationary expenditures which could perpetuate the high prices of goods and services.

“It’s only really serious if we have stagflation, that is, a recession accompanied by inflation,” he said. “And I wouldn’t rule it out. I’m not talking about next year. I’m not making predictions, but in terms of managing our exhibitions for all of us, I would think about that a little bit too.” “

Dimon made little mention Monday of next week’s presidential election, although he was asked about it. Dimon, who has not endorsed any candidate, has publicly praised some of former President Donald Trump’s policies, although he has reportedly expressed support privately for Vice President Kamala Harris.

Kyle Campbell contributed to this report.